Guest post by Leigh…
Some time back, SA-ET announced she had no dog in this race. Since then the dogs have multiplied, and the fighting has become very personal, very personal.
Now I am not referring to those on the outside, that’s pretty much expected. Since being banned at Pam’s House Blend, certain information that was specific to my account has been…shall we say leaked. The usual suspects are top of the list on that, but suffice to say that Pam’s House Blend is not a trustworthy site in my opinion. It’s ironic isn’t it that those that will control us and include us against our will, those that piss and moan about the rights of everyone, that holds the rights they seek is justice for all, would turn around and leak personal information. I know it leaked from them because I have separate email addresses specific to those types of sites, all unique. But hey, it’s nothing new. They are an unscrupulous bunch to start with, and they have pretty much shown over the years that they will use every dirty trick in the book against us, against our government and against society as a whole to get their way. I personally hope they never get their way. Some amongst us say they deserve all the rights they want. I say they deserve nothing!
However, I am not here to talk about the homosexuals and what we know about them; I am here to talk about what is going on in our own ranks. Recently, Aria Blue closed her site. In a private email to me she talked about the smear campaigns that was set up against her. She spoke of people like Liz (Notes from the T side), a long term woman of history that has more than a fair share of TG readers. Liz launched an all out war on Aria to discredit her. Aria showed me the CAMH references to some of the people that have tried to infiltrate our group. Others have done exhaustive cross references on some of the people we thought to be on our team; they have come up with some interesting results. Liz, on her website, speculated on outing Aria Blue, bouncing back and forth on whether to publish pictures she says come from a reliable source. June Hingle, a complete fake and tranny stalker that goes back many years, offered those pics to Evangelina. Evangelina’s response was to tell Hingle to shove them where the sun doesn’t shine. All the same, there has been wild speculation amongst some of our own, that Evangelina AKA Carolyn was at the root of all evil, a master fake with many aliases and up to no good. For what it’s worth I don’t believe any of it.
Recently, another person amongst us decided to start stalking me on the internet. This culminated in what amounted to a death threat. I am not afraid of this person but having read an email from them in another account I own and infrequently check, I am not inclined to let bygones be bygones. While I was willing to patch things up, I no longer feel inclined to do so. Personal attacks against my friends will never be tolerated. You know who you are.
All of this has considerably tainted my view of the mental health of some of these individuals and what they are capable of. I always knew of course, there were a lot of seriously ill people in the trans world. It used to be that any mental health issues were reason for denial by the old gatekeepers. The more I look, the more I see and to paraphrase Brad Pitt in the movie Inglorious Bastards, “cousin … business is a boomin”. Part of my last article here, highlighted this. I think it is way worse than even I had imagined.
It is one thing to debate the issues, to fight for our right to not be assimilated into the gay world, but really, is it worth all that many of us have worked for? As Dyssonance is so fond of saying about me, “you have yours and you don’t care about others.” You know what, she is absolutely correct. I do have mine, and from a long time back when the world was sane, when we had some human kindness, dignity and respect for others. I still have that, but I am a realist, and I see that my values are gone, along with my generation, we are being replaced with those that have no values, those that will do whatever they will and laugh as the knife goes in. It’s a wicked world, there are wicked people, and the trans world has a disproportionate share of whackos.
I have fought the good fight alongside those I thought were friends. I have no idea now who the friends are, where the line gets drawn, how many are sockpuppets, how many are just plain evil. It’s time for me to leave it all behind. I do have mine, and to hell with the rest of them. If they want to redefine everything, who am I to stand on the shore trying to hold back the tide. I have my own life to live. This will be my last post, here or anywhere else.
Its time for me to move on.
61 Comments
Perhaps you ought to Ask Aria about me instead of believing what your lying friends have told you.
June
BTW…evangelina/cassandra/carolyn are all the same person who so happened to also play me as a fool. Also…I am far from a fake. I have been swindled, betrayed, and deceived by many people starting from the top. If you are capable of believing the trash you just wrote about me then you are just as much a whackjob as all the rest you complain about. I have never seen so many arrogant/egotistical people in my life as I’ve seen amongst transpeople, who incidentally, are some of the most hypocritical/transphobic people that live on this Earth!
Leigh,
You are totally incorrect about what went on between Aria Blue and me. I would argue the point but you will believe what Aria tells you. Independent thought is not something found in many of Aria’s friends because if you do not believe Aria you will be discarded like yesterday’s trash such as she did to close friends and then be accused of vile things and have your narrative questioned by some clueless fraud.
Question Aria Blue and get ready for the venom. You really should just disappear like Aria and her crowd because you were a coward when she attacked your friends so slinking off into the [DELETED 01-30-11 SA-ET] sunset basically suits a coward.
By the way it is only a smear campaign if it is not the truth and what I posted was the truth and it was only in response to what was said about me. Funny thing about bullies like Aria. They almost always run when confronted.
You could be more forceful and say I was lying but you know it is the truth and that makes you just a hypocrite.
Good riddance.
Liz
You know I agree Leigh it’s time to tell them where to get off and do just that leave them to their destructive sick games.
I have received threats both physical and legal from some of these fools. I have a friend who was the subject of a smear campaign and can’t get the lies, doctored pictures and trash posted about here on TS Roadmap.
These people are seriously sick in the head and they are dangerous.
It has been most enjoyable reading your comments and essays, I’ll will miss you and Susan both.
It’s time to pull the plug the whole scene is toxic.
And another fool listens to the lies coming from Aria Blue. Asking questions is not a smear campaign and Aria Blue claiming I was attempting to “smear” her is akin to the chicken killing fox claiming it was the chickens fault for laying eggs and existing.
Aria was and is an intellectual coward and now we know Aria and her flock are total cowards although I am sure in their own clandestine way they are planning to resurrect Aria.
Funny isn’t it when some pathetic snake like Aria Blue with her hidden narrative and hidden past can make herself out to be a martyr after what she has said about me and others that simply asked questions about her positions.
Aria and her pals are all the same. They never answer a question and whatever they say or attempt to do to others is justifiable but when they are exposed as frauds they try and position themselves as Christ on the cross even thought they are mostly atheists.
Funny Aria never denied anything I said isn’t it and I said little and she was not outed but she was a fraud and when people stand up to bullies it is rare the bully tries to claim the victim but the delusional psychopath that is Aria can changes stripes and
Good riddance to the trailer trash.
Liz
Liz
Some of us have been fighting this fight for a nightly long time.
Ask yourself this, when is it time to live your life and stop fighting a war that cannot be won let alone a war that does not have any bearing on your day to day life?
That is where I stand and I can tell that is where Leigh stands.
You san Aria won’t answer questions put to her, well answer one for me.
What stake do you have in this fight?
What importance does it have on your daily life?
There are a few people on both sides of this little war who are in it just for the sake of the fight.
Let them consume each other for all I care.
And please DON’T call me names.
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Well you are a fool if you believe anything Aria Blue says to anyone. Aria Blue was and is a total fraud.
I was fighting this fight in NYC in 1970 to 1972 and did multiple radio shows in NYC and several television shows outside NYC. I decided it was better to live. I am the girl that called out John Money on Television in Philly and told him he was a fucking asshole and an idiot on live TV. Inappropriate language but an accurate assessment. I do not bully easily since my childhood.
Since then I have set multiple precedents for women since that was all I ever wanted in life. Those precedents opened doors for women in business and Engineering so guess what I already had a lot bigger stake in this game than any of the fools that genuflected to Aria Blue as both an activist and a woman. I took on Blue Cross and beat them before most of you had a clue which way was up.
The current so-called war has zero importance in my daily life. A friend and I still help TS kids like we were financially and have done this for 40 years and nobody can take anything away from me that I have earned including my womanhood which Aria could never lose because she never qualified. At best she was a know-it-all preteen girl and more than likely a delusional fool.
As for your last line it might be wise to remember how Aria and some of her sycophants treated anyone that disagreed and simply asked questions or pissed her off on her blog with comments that were neither derogatory to Aria or many of her dimwitted followers that flashed their nasty verbiage against the unsuspecting commenter.
Aria Blue got a little of what she deserved but not everything because bullies rarely do.
Okay I get it you own the fight.
I don’t have a problem with that.
This may come as news to you I was thrown off Blue’s blog almost 2 years ago questioning some of her statements.
So no I am no fool thank you.
As for money Karma came his way.
Now all we have to do is wait for Karma to come the way of JM Bailey Conway, James and a few others.
I’m not ashamed to say “I’ve got mine and I don’t give tinker’s damned about the rest of the world”.
Fighting these people is pointless if they are going to resort to outing people and ruining the careers of people.
One of those roaches lives within walking distance of me, this person has made legal threats against me thankfully I’m retired and that person cannot hurt me. That same person has hurt others, ruined careers and should be institutionalized for the damage she has caused.
It’s not going to happen, I just bide my time knowing God will take care of things.
This
Funny, I just put up an entry on my own blog directly on point…..
Frankly, at this point if it is not someone I’ve met in person I no longer trust them at all if they are trans anything.
I’ve been had at from all sides but the tranny activists are almost all universally scum without ethics, morals or even the ability to reason clearly.
I just finished reading your post.
These people are seriously sick. They don’t even see the fact they are being used by the homosexuals as some kind of goon squad.
Karma will take care of it in due time, maybe sooner. To God they will have to answer for their disgusting behavior.
I will answer on this post, but thats it. I am done playing russian roulette with those that will out people to prove a point.
It’s not about me… it’s about those that are close to me. It is about my husband and my family, and I have no business playing russian roulette with their lives and reputations. They are not part of this fight, yet in true gang fashion, the trannys don’t care who the bullets hit. It is irresponsible of me to put them in harms way.
I am nobody’s puppet, nor anyone’s psychophant. I am far from believing everything Aria has said just as I am far from believing that liz will not out people. You forget Liz, I am friends with Carolyn and she and I have spoken on this subject. You went back and forth on your blog as to whether or not to out Aria. That is a sign of an egotistical maniac. Went back and forth? WTF? There should never have been ANY doubt in your mind! Outing someone for personal revenge and gain is never right. Carolyn told you that! The mere fact that you seriously considered it says that you are morally bankrupt!
NOT YOUR FRIEND .. Wrong name.
You have taken more shit here and continued to come back, apologetic and supportive. You have never wavered, you stay stuff thats a bit colorful, so do I. I am your friend.
Cathryn …
We have traded plenty of shots at each other over the years I have known you. I apologise for any hurt I have caused. I understand that we are both very strong willed and hold our own views. I am proud to have had you on our team.
JUNE HINGLE .. Perhaps I have mis-identified you as someone else. Perhaps… If I have then I apologise for my recent remarks and offer a retraction. However, you were complicit in providing material to Liz and to offering the same material to Carolyn/evangelina/cassandra, and yes I have always known she had multiple identities. I think the insanity of the subject matter has proved her approach very wise..
ENOUGH! I am out .. you won .. good riddance to me…
Leigh;
I hope our paths cross again some day.
If there is anyone here I can call a friend it’s you.
We seem to resonate on the same wavelength. I like Susan and Cathryn a lot even though we have had our disagreements.
As to the rest of you;
You had better ask yourselves why you transitioned in the first place.
If it wasn’t to become a normal part of the female half of society, than maybe it’s time to reexamine why.
Once a transsexual, always a transsexual never transitioned.
Peace be with all of you.
Leigh,
I refused photos from June Hingle and never received any information from her. I went back and forth on my blog over whether I should provide information that Aria was a fraud and repeatedly stated I would not “out” her. I did not and what was said was done because I was personally tired of being called names and being accused of things over a difference of opinion.
There was no gain nor any attempt at a gain since I am not in your war. I asked Aria a question and questioned her position and was savaged for it. Everything about me was questioned and you Leigh whomever you are never said Aria that isn’t right. Not one single one of you said a word in defense of anyone when Aria and her pathetic minions savaged people.
Aria called me a fake when the real fake was Aria Blue and not a single one of you have ever admitted to that so I must assume you all knew she was a deadbeat father and she thought she was a transvestite initially which kind of contradicted her narrative
As for being morally bankrupt or an egotistical maniac I would get your facts correct before accusing me of that or you could simply look in the mirror.
So you wouldn’t out her eh! Sure isn’t what you wrote on your blog.
And whats this about Aria being a deadbeat father?
You are doing it right now, giving information out about her personal life. Thats tantamount to the same thing. I was not aware of it, and if I was an enemy of Aria I would use it to discredit her. So you are doing it right here as we speak for christ’s sake! I am sure if Aria had wanted that information given out she would have said it herself!
There is very little difference between giving out details of her life than there is in giving out her birth name and photograph, but I am sure that you will contradict that since you are such a know all.
I don’t like you very much Liz. You post a 30 year old picture of yourself and more credentials than a lawyers office wall,and for what Liz? To show everyone how real deal you are? Some of us never questioned your creds in the first place, certainly not I. So who were you trying to impress? Aria? ATG? Lisalee? or you.
You very much did start this whole discredit campaign against aria, article after article until even your own readers got sick of it and told you enough was enough. You obsessed over it, and you relished in it, and you are STILL relishing in it! You are a legend in your own mind Liz, and it would seem in Carolyn’s too.
Get my facts straight Liz? I think the facts speak for themself. You just gave out personal information about someones life.
Yes you are morally bankrupt.
Well not good riddance, but good-bye! You made me laugh and exclaim and scratch my head but I enjoyed reading your posts and comments. I can completely understand your reasons … your husband and family are not part of this fight and it is much more important you take care of that part of your life, the one that really matters.
Peace and privacy to you and yours, Leigh.
Sara …
Thank you Leigh…..
Liz, my brief encounter with you online left a very very bad taste in my mouth and frankly I don’t believe a word you say about anything. As far as I’m concerned you are a bully and and bigot yourself and you pointing fingers at others is pure projection.
You appeared out of nowhere at a time the tide was turning in our favour…..and it all fell to ruins. I remember cointelpro and cannot help but see it in action here. You initiated the war with Aria from where I sat. I have no idea if either of you are who you say you are, I only know what I witnessed online. Ugly, pure ugly.
catkisser,
You started your brief encounter with me on Aria’s blog by joining in the name calling with transvestite and worse or have you forgotten that? You made it very personal and when I told you going through life fat, ugly, and a witch left room for improvement you took offense. One should never get into a cat-fight and expect the side you are screeching at to play fair while you do not. You also got upset because I believe all churches should pay property taxes including yours although classifying a cult as a church might be a stretch but then again most churches are cults although most are not built on castrated men like the Cybeline religion is but in some way that is very fitting for you.
You questioned my legitimacy and you expect no response. You call me names and I have no right to reply. You question my womanhood when it is yours that is in question since you lived for the vast majority of your life as a man and transitioned well into your 40′s but we are all required to believe you are a woman and a feminist and question me and others.
Asking questions does not initiate a war but name calling does and Aria and you plus others initiated the name calling. No question is ever answered it is dismissed off hand and the questioning person is immediately attacked and it starts with the questioners legitimacy. This is the primary method men use in the world of business and you should know that Platine.
I was new to blogging but far from new to the internet and I had nothing to do with some self perceived tide changing or in the process of changing. I had questions for Aria about her definition of who a transsexual is and what defines a transsexual neither of which she actually fit herself and neither did you. What was that comment of yours on your blog about this 10-15 year cycle when transsexualism comes back to the forefront and i guess gets more intense each time and that was why you waited until your 40′s? Doesn’t fit the Aria narrative very well does it?
You and Aria and the many fools that believed her just did not get any of this at all. You thought you needed some perfect little definition for being transsexual sort of like Hitler had his perfect little definition of what an Aryan was. Unfortunately like the Germans you allowed a fraud to war and into oblivion because delusions of grandeur are infectious and like Hitler Aria ran to her bunker when the going got tough but then it is tough when the truth came out.
Ok I wrote a reply to this attack but decided not to further this garbage…… My life is an open book. I hid nothing. The reason was just demonstrated. Out of respect for both Leigh and Susan that is all I have to say.
Leigh, you are making the right choice. Those trannys will out you in a New York minute without a single care about the harm it would bring your family. Trust me, I know personally there is nothing so low and loathsome they won’t do it out of the black pit that passes for their hearts. They are pure evil as demonstrated by their acts.
Thank you Leigh for the apology. There is something that many of us have obviously lost in all of this, and that is “Trust”. I had my SRS in Neenah, WI on Dec. 14th, 2000. Ten years ago many of us were not afraid to expose our real names. We weren’t prepared for being outed, and the onslaught of defamation of character by people without conscience. I spent too much time trying to speak out for the truth, and, in the process I often failed to realize that not everyone seeks the same ideals.
Whatever happened in Aria’s personal blog that caused her to turn against me was not caused by me. I only tried to calm things down when Aria came down on certain people, including me. Aria and I recently talked it all out, and I believe that we have come to respect each the other’s differences that have been controlled by personal prespectives, and incidents that guide our personal view of things.
I wish everyone well, including those that I could never personally forgive for the damage that they have done to me, however the incidence that might have occurred.
June
ps. I am going to post something that was later removed by the writer. This is an example of what happens when a person who tends to blow thing out of proportion, becomes a victim of their seriously paranoidal condition, gone out of control. I will never be able to forget this, and I hope everyone here won’t either:
“Thursday, December 30, 2010
June Hingle
Mr Hingle has attempted to disrupt this blog by posting upwards of 300 comments on the previous post. I should have expected this and I did have to shut off comments for that post. Mr Hingle feels he has the write using the name June Hingle to call me many insulting names over the months and then seems to think it is ok to believe all is nice and like most abusive men he can weasel his way back into the good graces of the individual he has abused.
I have reported the individual to google but there is little they can probably do.
Think again Mr Hingle. I have been forced to turn on the requirement for word verification so we will see if that will help. This is what mr Hingle has done in the past to other individuals he has been in conflict with. His claims about natasha are as bogus as his constantly changing narrative.
I do apologize for the inconvenience but you can thank Mr. Hingle.
You can view Mr Hingle’s handywork by simply clicking on the post. This is such typical male behavior and if it was not such a pain to clean up it would be humorous because it would just confirm my belief that Mr. Hingl is the clear case of someone that made a serious mistake cutting off his member.
I do hold some responsibility for not requiring word verification but I am normally trusting. Now I intend to have some fun at the expense of Mr. Hingle.
Posted by XXXXXXXXXX at 11:29 PM”
June,
Your stupidity actually is boundless. Thanks for re-posting your own guilt.
The spawn of the devil has returned.
Leigh,
I need to mention something more, before you get too chummy with Carolyn/elangelina carters/cassandra/anonymoous/etc.,etc.
I retained all emails I had gotten from her. I received no such email as you, or she claimed. So, someone is lying. I can forward to you all emails exchanged between Carolyn, and myself up until the incident on Aria’s blog, and that date, and time was: Thu, 6/10/10, 5:16PM
I distinctly remember her recently (using the name “cassandra”), and making a comment about me on Liz’z blog. She made a nasty remark concerning when we were both members of HBS. As I said, I have retained all email conversations, and they will show proof that our conversations were strictly affable, and congruent with how “close friends” interact. Again….someone is lying, and it is NOT me. I am afraid that we all have been deceived by that person.
Yes, it is “Time to Move On” for me too. I am tired of the deception!
take care all,
June
June,
Does that mean you are not going to stalk my blog and wait to see if anything new is posted. You have 5 times as many views of my blog as I do and I check it daily.
Leigh, I don’t know you. I don’t really know anyone here. I haven’t been involved for very long, and I’m not really very involved now. I got mine. I continue to help behind the scenes when I can.
Just two things to say: thank you, and be well, you and your family.
Thank you Ariel .. Peace be with you
Is it really necessary to bring your fighting over here?
Grow up god damnit.
I got into this fight when Susan posted here saying we needed to have a united group to fight back against the TG tactic of piling in against any genuine TS who spoke out against their doctrine. So we organized and Aria was a part of that group. All this stuff about me began when I told everyone off on my now defunct blog Cassandraspeaks for attacking long term post women who began contributing to aria Blue. A behaviour that continued until Aria pulled the blog.
When I first came on the internet I was advised in chat rooms not to use my own name and so I created a yahoo email account using Carolyn Mills There are several reasons, private reasons I arrived at the name that are not relevant.
Over the years I have aided new transitioners one to one through offering my experiences in gaining a liveable life and one of those people was an English girl whose name was Evangelina Carters. I got her permission to take over the ID and used the name to open Cassandra speaks. These are the only ID’s I have ever used online and everyone I have been in contact with on line knows those two names are me. What people do not know and never will is my pre-transition name though three people who post here do indeed know my true real life married name. That is the extent of any duplicity on my part and I actually have been totally up front about that from the beginning.
Since pulling my blog Aria has been the source of a number of rumours and lies about me and my integrity. I have been called a TG troll working against TS women causing disharmony and disrupting alliances. I don’t have words to describe how ridiculous that is especially given the facts of my life as well as the length of time I have been speaking out against transgender doctrines. These outrageous claims are totally untrue and there have been just three people who have offered any public support. Leigh. Anna Rose and Sybil. Such is the way of all of the rest of you Until now I’ve remained publically silent on these accusations though a few people including Leigh know how much that hurt me.
During the last few months I’ve kept pretty much out of this whole fight except for the past few weeks where I have written a column for TS Si and a couple of comments elsewhere “an el asi” is one and “notes from the T side” is another. I began talking with Liz just a few weeks ago but in that time Liz and me have shared details about our lives that are eerily similar. I have never encountered ANYONE else whose experiences were so similar to my own and God knows it has been lonely.
Liz, has been a close friend in these few weeks and although the fight with Aria was not of my making I believe she was entirely justified in reacting to the accusations and attacks Aria made. How do any of you like it when the very facts of your existence are called to question by those who haven’t a clue about what it is like to spend years of personal abuse and misery because you don’t look “right”. People insist your male yet you look female but will not allow you the dignity to become female. I rarely if ever talk about my childhood to anyone for several reasons. One is I have encountered only three people in my life ever who shared the depth of my experiences as a child. Liz is one of them. Aria called that to question and implied a lie.
I am glad Liz had the courage to expose Aria and I am very much aware of the agonizing and conscience seeking that went into the post that Liz made about Aria’s true and unspoken narrative. In fact I support it. You have all been duped by Aria and complicit in the vilification of those early pioneers of transition and transsexuality and yet we have all benefitted from their courage. Liz is one of those women, Yet Aria and yes all of you vilify those women who came to again to help. Well shame on you, shame on you all. Aria stepped over a line with Liz and has suffered the consequence. I do not usually condone such actions but in this case I believe it justified. Liz stopped short of outing Aria and that is too her credit and to that extent believe I did influence Liz. But I believe she had the right to defend her integrity and so do I. Now I’m through with the lot of you.
June, I too keep emails, don’t tempt me.
I never took any part of trashing you…..quite the opposite but read the trashing your friend Liz just did of me. My crime? I occasionally commented on Aria’s blog, transitioned in my forties because against all medical odds my ex and I had a daughter and I was forced by my ex to agree to hold off transition until she came of age which I did.
I have always been up front about my medical history, never waivered from a strict medical definition of transsexuality in more than 15 years and was the only voice most of those years against transgender lunacy and erasure of transsexual people. Once again my deeply held religious beliefs was attacked to make it personal…….Cassandra, I am disappointed in you, I supported you on your blog, I tried to stay completely out of the garbage because I was disgusted that we all could not keep our collective shit together on the one cause we all held in common. I did not reply to emails from either side.
Liz has shown only hatred towards me since I first encountered her.
Cathryn,
would you like me to pull the comments in the chronological order where you first called me a transvestite and not a woman among many accusations. Please spare me the martyr act and spare me the crap associated with your religion which you threw in my face in one of your first nasty comments where you bragged about being a priestess and its importance. I do suggest all read what the Cybeline religion stands for but the truth is not important. I support no organized religions and hold them all in contempt as I do yours. A cult is a cult.
I am usually offended when some pathetic fool like you assaults my integrity and then claims innocence so yes I dislike you but I do respect some of the things you have done but we never got there because you attacked me personally I will not turn my cheek and I will fight back.
It is actually too bad but if you take personal shots at me you will get it back. If you question my opinions or the validity of something I say or post then we can agree to disagree in a civil manner but you violated civility first and now you are upset to get it back.
Carolyn
I am lost for words why you would post this. Liz contemplated outing someone… and there is no excuse no matter what the circumstance. Anyone that would even consider that cannot be trusted.
We have all been duped by Aria?
I defended you this whole time and now you come in here and swear alligence to someone that would consider outing someone they disagreed with. You best be careful you don’t say something to piss her off down the road or she might be inclined to out you!
I have not been duped by anyone, except perhaps you.
Leigh
I can’t leave altogether without saying something very POSITIVE about Aria Blue.
Most of the people who read Aria’s Blog agreed with the majority of what Aria was saying. Aria had her own POINT OF VIEW. Other than any conflict anyone had with Aria’s approach, the entirety of Aria word’s were SPOT ON with the same problem that many felt has affected, or may soon affect their futures as legitimate men, and women having gone through sometimes unimaginable traumatic experiences just to be able to live NORMAL lives.
It is such a shame that personal pride, and egotism got in the way of productive dialog.
Aria’s heart was in her message. When things fell apart, Aria still stood her ground, and although there was much anguish between all parties, Aria was able to maintain an essence of composure that would be lost amongst many of us, including one person in particular who thought that it was ALL ABOUT HER.
The last I talked with Aria, she was yet to close down her blog, but she conveyed to me how letdown she felt, and to continue blogging amongst such a slew of cutthroats, gave her pause, enough to realize that it may be good time for her to MOVE ON also. To make one’s mark, and to state one’s own honest feelings, and opinions is certainly NOT the sign of a coward. It is the SIGN OF A COURAGEOUS PERSON, who at least had the wisdom, and tolerance enough to move on in a wise, and dignified fashion. I hope in my heart that Aria is holding her head high, without fear of her own personal choices, nor the path she follows.
Good for You Aria Blue!
huggz to all,
June
My last word….
I have never doubted that Cassandra, Leigh or Susan are exactly who they say they are. Even through the written word you can tell who the real deal is after enough communication. I have never met any of them in person, that wasn’t needed. Liz is just too vicious and paranoid for me to trust anything she says.
I did my behind the scenes work to assure the cure clause of the DSM V revision and the pathologization of trnsvestites and AGs in same. The war will be over when they are official in less than a year now.
good night and good luck…. I owe none of you anything anymore.
Take care and may God be with you always.
Thank you for your comments Cathryn. May your god smile upon you
First off, this is my blog and, personally, I’m not going anywhere.
Secondly, I have known Leigh for many years real-time, I know her to be consistent in her feelings, have seen newspaper clippings that substantiate everything she’s ever said on-line, fight with her somewhat like the sister I never had, and completely understand why she is backing off; I was glad to put up her post.
Thirdly, it appears that I’m still somehow associated with the blow-up, for lack of a better term, that occurred on Aria Blue’s blog in spite of not only having nothing to do with it, but still really not knowing what happened and who said what to whom at one time.
Fourthly, I’ve had the opportunity to post extremely personal things I knew, or was told, about others here on my blog; on every occasion I’ve not done so. Whether the information was true or not is absolutely immaterial to me, bar none, I can’t think of a more chickenshit stunt than the one Elizabeth pulled when she posted personal information about Aria Blue on her blog. I think anyone who does that assuredly shows just how low class they are and instantly forfeits any integrity they might have had. And, Elizabeth, I am talking to you now, everything aside, I simply don’t like you. Most engineers have no problem putting together a correctly punctuated sentence, you can’t. After reading what you write and how you write it, your positions, and some of the most asinine logic I’ve ever encountered, short of Dysonance, I don’t believe anything you’ve ever said or claim. I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, and did; you failed…you failed miserably and completely. I won’t comment on your self-serving blog anymore based on your Toni D’orsay/Dysonnance like exchange with me this week. Be polite, however, and I will allow you to continue posting here if you like…for now.
I still know extremely sensitive and personal things that I’ve been told by others that I will not reveal. Confidentiality is a big thing with me…always has been.
Fifthly, I too am surprised at Evangelina’s post, catkisser.
Sixthly, it has always amazed me how some acquire these close, deep, intimate personal relationships with others on the internet, based on no more than words and pictures on a screen. I say to all of those people…you are naïve. People can and do invent, reinvent, and re-reinvent themselves every second of the day on the internet.
Lastly, though I’m clueless on the blow-up on Aria Blue’s blog and the all shameful and unrecoverable insults that evidently transpired back and forth between she and Elizabeth, I do know that I’ve about had my fill of the whole stupid mess appearing on my blog. So, you all slug it out and get it out of your system because my patience with the whole thing is waning.
[DELETED...ACQUIRE SOME MANNERS SA-ET 01-30-11]
Susan was away on contract work during that whole period when the blow up came over at Aria’s blog. Her own blog here will substantiate that she didn’t even post here very often during that time. I am not at all surprised that she didn’t know what was going on.
It might surprise you to know that Susan maintains this blog for her to post stuff she finds of interest to her. It is not a job. I also happen to know that she doesn’t take the tranny wars as serious as many might think she does.
After reading some of this stuff here today, I can see why.
“”It might surprise you to know that Susan maintains this blog for her to post stuff she finds of interest to her. It is not a job. I also happen to know that she doesn’t take the tranny wars as serious as many might think she does.”"
I have always found that fact to be centering, I don’t spend as much time following the tranny wars, not like I use to.
You know why you transitioned,
Susan knows why she transitioned,
I know why I transitioned, none of us transitioned to have our lives immersed in All-Tee-Gee-All-The-Time.
Being threatened by a mental patient and knowing I could not gain anything by letting this well connected fool take me to court made me weigh the importance of this kiddy-crap.
I don’t bother following these wars these days… Is this anywhere near as bad as what happened in alt.Support.SRS back in the 98 when the worst damage was done by real post-ops to other real post-ops?
There are nut cases on all sides and that includes long term post-ops. One such long term nut case tried to cause me problems in 3D YEARS after the last time i saw them on-line.
That taught me how much people can lose a sense of proportion in the on-lines wars, and why it’s not worth getting too emotionally entangled in them.
I follow these comments with some degree of passing interest, while fully conceding that I do not have first hand knowledge of what set off the Aria et al conflict in the first place.
I do know this: so much of the conflict skips over what I consider to be most important: protecting and enabling those who know their brains and bodies are fully misaligned, so seek hormonal reconsitution and surgical correction.
Despite the odds many of faced to get this done, the odds are even worse now given the predatory conflation of our birth condition with transgender lifestyle choices that derive from sociopolitical ideology.
We have made progress on straightening out the TG mess, but vulnerable people remain at risk. The TGs are plainly on the run and becoming more desperate by the day. It will get worse and more nasty before things get better.
I hope that while some of us take time out to settle scores among ourselves we do not let the TG activists creep up on us unawares and make things much much worse.
Please allow a ‘me’ moment to make a point.
It’s been extraordinarily difficult for me to maintain my self-esteem in life, particularly now going through this process. Strangely enough, the more friends i make (both in college and my new job), the more wonderfully close and understanding support i give and get with other women, who have the same feelings i do. Such has not been the case in this bizarre trans reality online.
There’s only so much i can contribute to the TG/TS debate because of the emotional and psychological weight i’m carrying around my neck right now. This condition drags me down and holds me back in so many very specific ways in life, i can hardly count them all. But i believe i can make it. Women like Leigh have told me so.
The sales pitch from the TG side has been thrown at me for a couple of years now, and i just don’t buy it. The narratives haven’t matched anything at all in my life, or my mind. Motives, drives, impulses. None of it. i just can’t understand their view. And they clearly can’t understand mine.
i’ve only posted a couple of times at TS-SI, hoping to develop a repoire there. Your contributor Suzan Cooke once declared me ‘obviously a queen at this point’, in a thread i never even participated in. Ironically i didn’t even know what a queen was at the time, thanks to my embarrassing ignorance of gay culture.
i understand i’ll never be known a fraction as well or never be taken nearly as seriously (as a public representative of TS) than Suzan Cooke. Private support from people like Aria, Susan, Leigh, Sara and others are why i’ve kept going online half the time, despite your contributor’s statement that i should just ‘shut the fuck up until five years after my surgery’.
But your statement of ‘protecting and enabling people’ like me, on your site? Sure. You seem to be attempting to illustrate an undue picture of compassion and intellectual nobility that not only falls short of the mark with ‘little people’ like me, but does quite the opposite.
It’s too bad i never got a chance to post my two-page response full of honest reactions and compelling questions to Teresa on your site, before it flushed itself into the usual situation and you shut it down.
As for the rest.
The twisted lies and half-truths about Aria, they are what they are. She has stated before publicly that she ‘did not transition particularly old or particularly young’, and she is not ‘particularly pretty nor particularly ugly’, asserting her ‘averageness’ in every way. It’s a partial lie, because her intellect in person is so fierce as to be dizzying to me. And i think she’s beautiful.
Trying to frame her as some sort of ‘age purist’, or a ‘teen troll’, or an ‘old hag’, is what it is. She and i are about the same age. Make your own conclusions. i don’t have any desire to engage with Liz/Cloudy or anyone who promotes HSTS in any form.
Not because i ‘hate’ them. Not because of a ‘vendetta’. But because we’re obviously operating from entirely different acceptable viewpoints. And that also goes for anyone who would support such people and viewpoints.
And on a personal level, anyone who makes as many ‘trailer’ references as she has online clearly have some ‘contempt of class’ issues. i grew up in trailers, and sometimes no where to live at all. She can take a shot at that if she likes. Just as soon as she establishes how that has any bearing on a debate at hand.
i also feel compelled to apologize to Cathryn. Please don’t let the junior-high-intellect-level insults to your religion sour your view toward all atheists. Some of us like and support pagans.
People often take advantage of Susan’s liberal (yeah…i just said that) posting policy of allowing anyone who wants to come squat on her lawn and leave a reply. Sometimes the pile is too large and unsightly to ignore, and she’s forced to break out the plastic bag and scooper.
People don’t have to do that. People can behave in a more civilized fashion. That would encourage more helpful participation.
Or not. To each their own.
Now run off and make individual attacks on your blogs, as many are want to do.
Anonymous T Girl: I have had nothing to do with most of the issues you discussed.
However, you did mention TS-Si in connection with columns we carried by two of the independent contributors.
This is not my site, so any issues you may have with TS-Si are best taken up over there. Please feel free to contact me privately and we can discuss your concerns.
You advised me that you would send me an email regarding such during an IM chat once. i never received one.
i have raised the topic here because you brought up the subject of ‘settling scores’, which is reasonable. You also stated an intention that i believe is noble, but by both observation and first-had experience know is not followed through.
As Teresa learned (rightfully or not, i don’t know, since i never had the chance to speak my mind on the subject), your site is often not ‘safe’ to discuss things without personal attacks being thrown around.
If someone dismisses me as a gay man, and the comment receives approval by silence from those in control (ie: you), then i know not to participate in such a forum.
My email is clearly marked on my site as well, should you ever wish to discuss it.
Anonymous T Girl
As for the IM promise, I do remember that now and I believe it was my intention to investigate; however you may not know that I was hospitalized the very next day, part of a lengthy struggle to retain my eyesight. I am sorry if I did not come through for you. It was not my intention.
As you know I have sent you an email, read your response, and responded in turn. I hope we can continue our discussion there.
I find myself entangled now in a broad array of subject matter and personal disputes that do not involve me. I hope and others will understand that almost anything I could say here would do more harm than good, given that I know virtually nothing about what went on.
TS-Si is another matter. If anyone has a concern at any time, please contact me. I will do my best to deal with the issues.
Susan, my apologies. I did not anticipate that my post would lead to TS-Si issues best discussed elsewhere.
No problem whatsoever, Sharon.
Having spent nearly the first 20 years of my post transition in a vacuum, I have found the online TG/TS communities to be more often than not a laugh and far cry from the real world where people must be real.
You get your confidence from the people you let into your life, even the ones who abuse that privilege you can pity them and be glad you are not one of the unfortunate ones.
Anybody who tells you; you don’t know anything until 5 years post op will ban you when you finally “know” something.
Been there
Done that
Your blog is one of the very, very few I stop by and read regularly.
Geez, get a grip people , in reading all these posts it is obvious to me that some of you spend to much time on the net. Take a break for a change and find something else to do for awhile. Your claiming to be older adults, but thats not what your showing now. Opinions will differ, its not something to get work up over. If someone is posting something you don`t like or feel its hurtful, turn off your computer for awhile and calm down. I have seen many wild ass claims made on the net all the time, no big deal, brush it off and move on, life is to short for such nonsense.
I find myself having to delete a few similar names from my Yahoo IM friends list. I really don’t like being discussed. Private messaging means private to me.
I need to summon my minions to rake the fakes.
I am going to weigh in on this nasty little spat ONLY to provide some perspective. What I am about to say here is common knowledge to those parties involved. My hope is that the absurdity of this little spat can be seen for what it is, the over-reaction of damaged egos.
It is pretty common knowledge that when one’s integrity is questioned, those of us who hold that integrity to the highest standard, will take serious issue with those who not just question our personal integrity, but attack it.
Susan, the “blow-up” as you call it, which occurred on Aria’s Blog, took place in late October of 2009. I posted some admittedly naive comments in good faith because I had not yet been made aware of the depth of justifiable mistrust that exists on these blogs. I did make it clear that I had transitioned quite young in the early 70′s, moved easily into a “mainstream life” and had no real understanding as to the depth nor the ferocity of the conflict with “TG” Inc.
I was immediately pounced upon by what I then called to your faces, a pack of sycophantic harpies. I have no need to mention any names since you know who you are. I was deeply hurt and troubled by the BLIND and MINDLESS viciousness and fury of the attack, and while I certainly gave as good as I got, it was not a fair fight, and in truth, I had nothing to prove or defend. After all, I have my life, it is a good one and “winning” some argument with a bunch of angry “cyber-warriors” held about as much importance as noticing a bug die on the windshield of my car. Less, really.
A few days after that I received a very heartfelt apology from one of those attackers, who felt that I had been poorly and unfairly treated. Over the course of many e-mails we grew to know one another better and became friends. Since that time over the past year or so I have continued to try to somehow find away to move beyond our differences to some semblance of a united front.
In truth, I honestly do not believe that it can be done. From what little that I have witnessed, it simply CANNOT and will NOT happen. The main reason that I see is personal ego. Everybody HAS TO BE RIGHT! That is a total impossibility, simply because there IS no “right”. There is no “right way” to see things or do things.
What worked or works for me will not work for you or her BECAUSE we are different. We may all share a common experience in having survived being born TS, but HOW we survived is totally different and unique to OUR own personal experience.
On top of that there exists the VERY apparent reality that within the TG AND TS population, there exist a percentage of those that are seriously and/or to various degrees, just plain WACKO. I mean seriously functioning sociopaths. No wonder that no one dares trust anyone.
Despite all the holier than thou claims of altruism, I have no delusions regarding where certain loyalties lie. I have personally been seriously threatened with having my 3D identity revealed. How can one NOT take such a threat seriously, and those over something as innocuous as a political disagreement. Are these the individuals that we are supposed to trust and respect. Those are very people who would, rather than defend their position, be it on geopolitics or TS/TG theory, attack those questioning that position to the point of exposing their 3D identity.
That is why this is a hopeless struggle. Despite agreeing with much of what Aria preaches, I cannot condone her demagoguery. Nor will I respect those who lack the integrity to acknowledge their
own shortcomings.
Cassandra went her way for her own reasons and I am privy to those reasons which I will not share here. However, I will urge those of you that question her integrity to take a serious look at yourselves and your reasoning.
Oh come now ..
You were not “immediatly” set upon. You made a few posts and then some became a little suspicious of your motives. You then posted a link to some tg site called pink essence or something like that, and thats when you were called out.
You make it sound like you were beaten from the get go, ripped limb from limb and fed to the dogs. You know by now, in fact, you have even participated in, calling out those that would try to sneak in a tg narrative.
And yes I was one of those that called you out, and yes I later apologized to you for my mistake, which even you now realize was partly your own doing.
I’m just not feeling real benevolent these days.
I agree with you Leigh that my naivete was what brought me under suspicion. I also acknowledge your apology. However, your anology to a pack of dogs might be more accurately described as a pack of hyenas.
But my point is that this same disgraceful behavior is what transpired when a friend of Elizabeth chimed in with some alternative opinions. Apparantly when Cassandra/Evangelina questioned this unseemly behavior she incurred the wrath of aria and her gang.
There is no question that I agree with a lot of what Aria has to say. What I DO find highly offensive is her intolerance of dissenting POV’s and her highly offensive knee jerk reaction of attacking the integrity of those asking the questions. I believe that NOT calling that behavior into question is what inevitably led to the BLAST BACK by Liz. Eventually she was bound to anger someone who would not simply walk away.
In Summary …
I am really glad this nasty, ugly affair has been given an airing. The old saying goes there is no smoke without fire, and certainly this whole affair, while stretched this way and that, while full of conspiricy theories, secret rendevous and secret personalities, stinks to high heaven.
Something is or was going on. To what extent certain characters are involved, I don’t know. It is suspicious that Liz’s blog came out of the blue right after carolyn closed her blog. Moreso, that carolyn feels angry at Aria, and that liz’s blog targeted Aria, and that liz and carolyn are now best friends. Carolyn and Liz are alike in more ways than their shared narrative, for they are both somewhat secretive and misleading, liz with her 30 year old pics and walls of credentials, carolyn with her secretive multitude of names. There were other charachters too around that time, cloudy was one that carolyn immediatly started corresponding with and who she now says is a fake, and yes, you too annarose, another that carolyn started corresponding with, or were all of them secretly tied in before they showed up?
I don’t know. I feel that I am a pretty good judge of character, maybe not. Maybe I was duped in as well. Maybe all of this was just as Aria tells it. I find it hard to believe but on the other hand I feel it is altogether possible and very suspicious. Maybe the truth lies somewhere in the middle and that was just the way the dice rolled.
Doesn’t really matter now, it’s all done. Nobody won, everyone lost. The problem is that Liz doesn’t see it that way, and neither does her new friends. And you know… that’s what really makes wonder if it isn’t all really true that this in fact was a sting.
Guess we’ll never really know.
I agree with you Leigh…every word.
As I said previously, the person Carolyn, and I never had anything but a good rapport. She emailed me when I began writing on Aria’s Blog, with the same pleasant personality, and with the same commensurate amicability, and respect. “Carolyn” even re-sent a photo of herself to me when I asked her if she was the same person I was a friend of awhile back in the HBS group. (It was a photo taken at a car club meet where she was seated with her husband of many years who she said has never known about her past.) She emailed me when I began writing on Aria’s Blog, and when Aria chased us away because of some interaction that went on between Aria, and someone else, whom I am not sure of exactly.
The fact that this “Carolyn” who was always a friend to me, would turn against me with no explanation, and suddenly side with Liz, totally baffled me. I am seriously dumbfounded about that, but there is one thing that begins to make sense, and it is what Aria told me. When I emailed Aria to talk to her about what they did to me on Liz’z blog, Aria said that it appears to have been a conspiracy. I began to open my eyes.
We may never know what went on Leigh.
As an outsider in this mess one who was booted off Aria’s blog for asking too many questions early on. I just let it go and just considered the source.
Maybe…..but who got stung?
You now suspect those who you once called friends. Your friendship with Carolyn damaged, possibly beyond repair. Aria goes her way the sainted martyr. And Liz is still ragingly pissed. In all candor I found her reaction to Aria’s attacks to have been a bit of an overkill. I pointed that out in my comments on her blog.
Sadly neither party would back off and the war of words escalated much to the collective loss of those that MIGHT have been able to form an alliance of thought and purpose.
Instead….well…….maybe some good will come of this.
Yes there is good that comes of this. We learn lessons about subversive human behavior, and if at all possible to avoid it.
Who got stung you ask?
A group of people that had come together to fight the TG on their own territory, a group who set their world on fire, a group that was so small and yet so effective that in a very short time turned their shouting down tactics into one of listening. It’s easy for them to shout down one person, not so easy when they had to shout down six or seven.
Oh yes, we were effective. So effective that some felt the need to infiltrate our ranks and sow the seeds of doubt. I am not saying that Aria was always right, or that I was always right, perhaps none of us were, but I do know that those of us that seriously want to see an end to the TG/LGB speaking for us and stealing our narratives, are not going to get it by speaking up singly. The tg activists are not interested in what one person has to say, they are only interested in feeding their own dogma and keeping everyone in line. Someone such as Ashley love speaks out of turn, look how they jump on her.
We had a small chance at starting a trend, where others with like opinions and objectives would feel safe to speak up. Sometimes all it takes is one person willing to stand in front of a tank to stop it in its tracks. Perhaps we made a difference. Perhaps we lit a torch that others like Ashley Love could pass down to the next. Perhaps…..
Its gone now, the moment not siezed, an opportunity lost.
Who got stung you ask ?
We all did!
Actually you guys did make a difference.
Look how the content of Bilerico has changed, you don’t seen them posting the kind of crap they did regarding women of history. That is a small change but an important one. PHB is even a little more careful. By the way I’m surprised someone didn’t pick up the phone and call Pam SPalding and complain her phone number is on the net. Sandeen’s address was for a time on the net and yes it’s the real address. Someone who is going to take the time to actually write a letter or place a phone call will get more attention than an email.
Unlike us these people are public figures. All three of them ether run or contribute to a commercial media outlet.
They have no special protection nothing more than the Washington Post or LA Times.
Leigh you guys did make a difference. The problem was not finding enough people who had the conviction you had for the cause. I was already banned from both bilerico and PHB by the time you started, because I was one voice who wouldn’t give up.
So I disagree you did make a difference.
Yes bilerico did move away from speaking for transsexual women, as did transadvocate, and for a while even Sandeen had to listen up. We just didn’t have the right people and enough people. But it shows it can be done, if enough people question the regime it can be toppled. But I think that we did spark some to think, that there are some now who are not afraid to question. Sandeen’s popularity took a big hit and has still not recovered. I think others will bring this down. I think the GLB itself will eventually concede the great experiment was a huge fail.
In regards to Carolyn, I belive she has been used. I believe that in her search for someone with a narrative that she could identify with, she inadvertantly became a tool for some unscrupulous people that wanted to bring Aria down. I know she will vehrmently deny this. She has a right to support whoever she pleases. I dont believe she set out to inflict damage on Aria even though she felt angry at Aria. I think she got caught up in the rhetoric, was used and is still being used. I hold no grudge against carolyn, aria, atg or even lisalee, the so called “Aria Minnions”. If they feel a grudge against me thats their problem. I’m a big girl, I knew the job was dangerous when I took it.
Pretty much, we have come full circle with this. As I said above I am done. I want to thank all of you that participated and those that only cheered from the sidelines. It was fun while it lasted … and thanks for all the fish
..Goodbye
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