Every now and again, like everyone else I suppose, I have an ah ha moment. You all know what I mean. An instance where one is struck by the obvious.
Well, this afternoon, I kinda-sorta had one of those while reading the comments over at Pam’s House Blend entitled Why Transgender Activists.
The issue is quite simple really and based on just three points:
1. The GLBT has colonized and assimilated anyone who could even vaguely be considered as having stepped outside of conventional gender norms under the term transgender. Transgender is composed of, at least, these groups: bi-gender, gender queer, cross dressing, genderfuck, drag queens/kings, androgynes, pangender, trigender, ambigender, non-gender, gender fluid or intergender…and transsexual.
2. Many, many, though not all, either post operative or surgically tracked transsexuals resent the GLBT’s including us within the transgender because we see the transgender, for the most part, as an huge, attention getting embarrassment we have nothing whatsoever in common with.
3. The transsexual activists fail to respect the position of those of us do not want to be included under the transgender umbrella and assault us with a barrage of insults every time we try to present our position, only ending their onslaught when we either leave the debate voluntarily, we are banned, or we’re dismissed with some variation of “if you’re not transgender then why are you here.”
A few facts that only illustrate my experience:
Post GRS women I know personally, and including myself, only participate in the gender debate online. No one that I know personally has any contact with the transgender community. Indeed, as we state, we have nothing in common with the transgender community. We have nothing in common with the gay and lesbian community. Our education runs from highly educated to high school only…which corresponds but is not related to our careers…which includes professionals, business owners, and working women.
Our politics run the gamut from ultra left, to moderate right wing; I do not know any woman of history who would be considered anything close to the extreme right wing. Politically, we are simply a mix of the mainstream. Every woman I know who votes would probably vote for same-sex marriage and ENDA simply because it’s the right thing to do, not because it affects their lives one way or the other. We are all married. None of us are “out and proud.” We do not consider ourselves needing any special civil rights and none of us feels any obligation to support the GLBT just because…nor actively advocate for their political positions.
To all of us, no matter what the GLBT, or specifically the transgender, does will affect our lives one way or the other. We realize that the transgender are societal clowns who have ridden in on the coat tails of transsexual’s prior successes. Because we dwell in the mainstream, we are certain that the transgender political future is dim, as they attempt to pass off absurdity after absurdity, one right after the other, over and over again.
To the one, all any one of us have ever wanted to do was simply have our surgery and then go on about our lives just like everyone else in the mainstream…and we have.
I want to say that again:
To the one, all any one of us have ever wanted to do was simply have our surgery and then go on about our lives just like everyone else in the mainstream…and we have.
Now, many have said that the transgender do not understand our position. As for me, I disagree. I think the transgender absolutely understand our position. I also feel that they are extremely jealous they simply do not have the capacity to integrate into society as we have. It slays a sociopath like Antonia D’orsay that we have worked hard and achieved success within the mainstream while she is unemployable and stuck in the homosexual and transgender ghetto. It just drives someone like Autumn Sandeen nuts that we have worked hard and achieved a societal equilibrium as she, too, has chosen to live within a framework of 24/7 transgender.
The transgender activist insult us out of pure jealousy for not making such sociological terms as classism, lookism, ableism, and sexism, the most cognizant points of our minute-to-minute lives. Just existing and being white indicates to the transgender that we are racist, even though many of them are as well. Their sense of entitlement is only surpassed by their assumption that privilege is some dark, conspiratorial arena is the reason they are not blessed with it. We stand accused of homo and trans phobia should we simply not agree with positions they have and that fly in the face of good common sense and are an embarrassment for any sane person to hold. And, their jealousy and hatred of us blinds them to the fact that positions and actions are perceived as something just shy of a circus to society as a whole. The GLB to some extent, but particularly the transgender have become akin to a sleazy carnival sideshow. Any one who expresses any position that does not align with the Gay, Inc’s transgender is automatically subjected to a mass calling foul.
So, at least as far as I’m concerned, I had an ah ha moment regard to the gaudy transgender. I mean, after all, the transgender understand perfectly our position and it drives them crazy. The TG are not going to stand down. The TG are not going to respect our position. Over the past couple of years, if anything, that whole politic has gotten worse as they have quickly become the laughing stock of our nation.
So why should I put forth any effort? I don’t think I should. I’ve seen photos and videos of Autumn and Dyssonance; believe me, they are forever jailed with the transgender fringe. Why should I go to someplace like PHB and try to convince a group of social misfits of anything…and have to write comments with a queer influenced lexicon by my side so as not to ruffle their sensibilities to boot. Why am I attempting to engage in meaningful conversation with a pre-op/non-op, short-term transitioning, neophyte who is a certified, admitted, and unashamed sociopathic loser like Dysonnance.
So, why should I, particularly when one thing is the truth: nothing any of the transgender do is actually going to affect me in one single way.
I hardly ever make a comment on any blog anymore; it’s very seldom that I do. And, I’d like to say that nothing the transgender do will affect me is really the reason why I’ve decided to quit posting on PHB but it’s not.
The real reason I actually posted on my last post. The real reason is I want to have the absolutely exquisite enjoyment of continuing to watch the transgender make a complete fool and utter embarassment out of themselves in the mainstream. I love watching them get shot down time and again when nobody buys what they are trying to sell. The funny thing about the transgender is that Autumn and Dysonnance and the rest have actually made themselves believe the clap trap they talk about over there. It’s their own self made delusional bubble being poked at by people like us that sends them into a anger fueled frenzy.
So, I’m through with PHB…they and their transgender concubines and nonsense can rot on the vine for all I care.
I’ll continue my observations and enjoy their absurdities here from now on.
66 Comments
What in the hell is wrong with these people!
You go in and you try your damndest to state your position and at every turn they pick your statements apart and claim your racist and that your somehow the benificiary of some mythical white privledge… what the fuck! What freaking white privledge? Hell I dont even have voting rights in the United States let alone white privledge!
I am accused of racism at every turn where no race references are even made in any post by me! Homophobic …HELL NO I AM NOT HOMOPHOBIC … HOMO DISGUSTED AND ABUSED is what I am!
Where the fuck do they get off pulling the race card out at every turn? Pams House Blend is owned by a black woman .. Do you see me in there commenting on her posts, calling her out as being a nigger? Hell No! And yes I will use the Nigger word since I am classified as a racist, then I see no reason not to OBLIGE them! Just who in the hell does Anthony da’Orsey think he is to call me out as a racist! What a low life piece of shit! I got news for you MR Dorsay .. (Yes I am aware of your rules susan ..so ban me) .. but Jesus H Crist on a swizel stick, this mother fucking, reverse racist, low life shit head tranny faggot, desrves every fucking ounce of derogatory terms I can muster, and I don’t care one bit if it says more about me than it does about him.
You want a racist…congratulations .. you just created a new one!
You want a homophobe .. count me as one. Thats what happens you shit for brains when you go throwing out hate, when you twist things, and when you engage in lies to embolden your position. The same effect as when you demand things from society .. a backlash! When you torture innocents, you create more enemies.
Congratulations… hope you enjoy your limelight for soon it will be over, alomg with the rest of your delusional homosexual agenda..
You need to lay off the sauce, Leigh. So it looks like they baited you effectively to push the right buttons, didn’t they. Let your handler know that her puppet performed smashingly!
Still up to your old tricks I see. How is it working in the TG community?
And Susan .. You will have to ban me if you want me to continue respecting these assholes as She and Her .. No more! Its time we stopped pussy footing around them and refer to them in the way they act and by the deeds they do … The gloves are off!
That’s right, Leigh. Keep feeding them ammunition…
That is much better than enabling them and supporting their delusional behavior. Calling a TG man a she makes as much sense as handing a suicidal person a large bottle of pills. Either one contributes to the destruction of the person and affirms their delusions, bad behavior, and false beliefs. Calling them “she” is rewarding them, and why should we reward our abusers for abusing us?
I agree with Leigh;
The time for respect has ended.
They don’t respect us, why should we respect them.
I take heart in the fact they will get their payback soon enough.
Firstly Lisa ..
No they didn’t bait me effectivly. I already knew and said the whole article was a bait trap for all of us.
Secondly, there comes a point where you realise that whatever you say, no matter how sincerely you say it, no matter how polite and respectful it is, they are going to tear it apart. When you finally get there, as I did today, when you realise there isn’t one of them big enough to step out and say to the others .. HEY! .. is when you just as well play the last card and fold your hand.
Thats what I did. I knew full well the result, and the accusatory comments you made above you go shove in the back of your trailer and haul off to alaska
Well, we are way too good of friends for me ban you, Leigh, but I’m not going along with misgendering. I will admit that I’m going to be a bit more liberal in the posts here. And, certainly feel free to use quotation marks around the pronouns if you like.
Enough really is enough…
It is not “misgendering” when you call a TG a he. MtF TGs are HEs, and it is lying, immoral, and wrong to call them she. Only MtF TSs are SHEs. MtF TGs are just male sexually-motivated persons who merely pretend to be women. By calling them she, you are supporting their perversion, delusions, and lies. If I know they are non-op TGs, I will always refer to them as their birth gender. When you call them SHE, you are supporting the harm they cause us and the lumping. They are not she, but MEN in drag.
Your idea of “misgendering” is a TG man’s idea to oppress TS women while he co-ops their identities. When a TS calls a TG a SHE, she is insulting TSs and other women by referring to male perv**ts as women. In reality, misgendering should only apply to actual TSs and born-female women (or born-male men). A TG man misgenders himself when he insists on being called a SHE, when he was born with a penis, loves having it, loves using it, and has the brain waves of men. I give the benefit of the doubt unless I know for sure they are a TG/CD and not a true-TS. I could never forgive myself if I knowingly called these men SHE/HER/MA’AM. GG women call these men by male pronouns, and so should we, unless we are TGs and love being abused by these TGs. Real women don’t accept them, and we are real women too, so why the double standards?
Calling a non-op TG man a SHE is no better than giving a suicidal person weapons to kill themselves, or cutting off an apotemnophiliac’s arm so they can live their deluded need to be disabled. It is like calling a cop impersonator a real cop, even if that fake cop is really a rapist in disguise. Or like the guy in Catch Me If You Can who wanted to be called “captain,” “Attorney,” “Dr.,” “MD.,” etc. However, he was not really a pilot, lawyer, medical doctor, etc., and none of the checks he wrote were any good. The US Attorney General of that time did not call him any of those things either. No, they called him a con man, liar, thief, crook, swindler, impersonator, fraudster, etc. TS women are real women with a birth defect, while MtF TGs are men who merely pretend they are women, who live lies, and who do things I cannot even mention here. So I am supposed to award them for stealing our identities and those of born-female women, be an enabler, betray myself, and help others live complete lies? TSs transition to stop living lies, and TGs transition to start living them.
Also, in English, He is a correct default pronoun for ANY person. If you don’t know the gender, he is the correct word according to English scholars, no “they,” and certainly not “it.” People often refer to babies as “its,” and I find that distasteful.
I am post-op only a year, but it didn’t take me nearly that long to know that I am a woman, not a trans-anything. I stopped reading PHB a long time ago. The only reason I’ve looked at it lately is because you pointed out that four-part post. I’m glad it’s not part of my regular reading.
I do have some kind of stake in GLB (not T) by virtue of the fact that I was bisexual before transition and bisexual after, although at a different point on the scale, and I have a female partner of 30 years who is the love of my life and my soul mate. I’m not really interested in any kind of activism, having done my share when I was younger, so that includes LGB activism.
You wrote something recently that really hit home with me. I do call people by the pronoun of their choice, because I’m polite, but that in itself does not indicate how I truly feel. I am not one to fall for postmodernist claptrap. That brings me into conflict with some friends, but I can’t help how I feel. Those are people I don’t see very often, and one even defriended and blocked me on Facebook, showing her true colours.
Thank you for your clear, calm view on all this.
Why should we live a lie and call people something other than what they really are? We started down this path so we could stop living a lie, so why should we condone others taking up lies, and why should we participate in their lies?
I knew I was right-wing and non-pro-gay long before I knew I was TS, and having this birth defect changes nothing. If other women can have such values, then why not me? Are they somehow more special and deserve more privilege than me?
I refuse to accept ANY double standard in my life from others. If GGs can do it, so will I (except for the ones nature imposed on me like not having babies nor singing soprano). And if it makes me or my cause look bad, then so be it. Anything is worth a life lived honestly and according to the person’s own beliefs and morals. If we don’t stand for something, we will fall for anything.
Leigh. I am with you and I am sorry that you took such a beating. You knew what you were doing. Anytime you mix it u with a psycho-whacko like Dyss, you know you will get covered in excrement. That is the reality of engaging with shitheads, specially sociopathic ones that care little for the damage and hurt that they inflict on others.
Frankly I see Dyss the same way I view tht shooter in Tuscon. A true danger to society. I have met her personlly in 3D and their is little connectin to reality. [DELETED 01-15-11 SA-ET] is totally f**ked up.
I would again like to restate my call for a simply worded position paper calling for an official declared disassociation from the LGB(TG). Those few of us that might be bi or gay can choose to maintain an association as is their want, but I agree. The time for reasonable debate has past. There is no reasoning with fanatical, faschist ideologues.
Perhaps something like what Cathryn has alluded to, some “Declaration of Independance”. If we are labled “separatists”, so be it. At least we will have a voice of our own.
I had to laugh when they referred to classic transsexuals as a “fringe group”. That was a real hoot, coming from people who hide out in the gayborhood, can’t even get a job (except in the gayborhood), and absolutely refuse to assimilate into mainstream society. Goes to show what an upside-down world they live in.
I have to admit though, I laughed even harder when I read Leigh’s final comment over there!
Leigh, I am not going to criticize your final Pam’s post but will use it to point out a couple of things.
First, I have been blown away at how well you answered all the TG garbage there up to that point, especially the next to last longer one. I am impressed and I totally understand why you decided to finally go down in flames.
There are two things you have to keep in mind when answering TG insanity (assuming anyone wishes to do so) One, write to the larger audience. You will never convince the TGs and their delusional gender deconstructionist allies but they are not the only ones who read blogs like Pams. Try to always remember you are writing to the sane ones reading, not the sociopaths and delusionally mentally ill ones.
Second is harder, I call it the 100 to 1 rule. If you respond once to a hundred insults then in this arena you are the aggressor. It is the double standard squared but I learned long ago it’s true. It means you will almost never find fair play anywhere these lunatics have colonized and should never expect it. Oh, pointing it out occasionally goes back to the first point but do not expect sane people to wade in and support you…….after all the costs of doing so are on clear display.
You did a fantastic job there Leigh, you should be proud.
I have to agree with you, Leigh did a splendid job…what, in a venue in which prevailing was not going to happen, something she was fully aware of.
Well done…
I’d like to echo Cat’s sentiments. You (Leigh) and Susan did an amazing job arguing against the trans* gang. It took a while, but I managed to wade through all the crap. The entitlement and selfishness of these people astounds me.
There are so many quotes that are memorable, but this one of Susan’s stands out for me:
“I find it fascinating…
…that anyone who transitions would want legislation that would in any way, even peripherally, coerce society to accept them. That is tantamount to admitting they have failed in their transition and are unconvincing in their target sex/gender, and isn’t that the goal?
How could coerced acceptance give anyone who transitions any joy?”
That pretty much sums it all up for me.
Sara …
Thank you to everyone for your support in this matter.
I have calmed down since yesterday, and while I do not regret that I was banned from posting at PHB, I do regret having used foul language. That being said, these people can and do try the patience af a saint, certainly of the religious right, and it is no wonder they recieve no respect.
Susan has invited me to write an article on the events that transpired. I am in two minds since what was said is available for all to read at the link she provided. However, I do have some things to say and I will be posting.
Once again, thanks to you all .. the few.
Thank you Leigh for fighting the good fight.
I make few comments at the circus. I do laugh a lot at the clowns. I was accused of hate speech for using the term clown and I thought that itself was hilarious. I love clowns. Every successful circus has clowns but clowns do not make the circus successful. I think we need to cease using the terms currently bandied about because their definitions are murky. We should use circus terms like freak, sideshow, bearded lady, high wire act, lion tamer and so on. Trained animal act and ringmaster would be appropriate too at times.
Leigh, I would enjoy reading more of your thoughts. I know D’orsay and support Antonio’s efforts to help the homeless and hurt strays that end up at H.O.W. I laugh, however, at the “in your face” tactics when Antonio gets on a roll and tries the brute force confrontational tactics. For example using “privilege” as a pejorative. I like privilege. Bring it on because I’ll take all anyone wants to give me.
I’m a ditz. I have no need to assert degrees, intellect, successes or any other self exalting personal attributes or accomplishments. I don’t think it takes a genius to witness the dynamics that led to the inclusive ENDA failing. Conservatives and congress critters have internet access too and they even watch youtube. In troubled economic times they weren’t about to foist ill defined “gender identity” laws and regulations on the commercial world. I mean really, it is hard to tell the gender of a clown under all the make-up and costumes. Best to just pat them on the head and remind them to make the audience laugh.
Just so there is not misunderstanding with how I feel on this issue I feel compelled to make a few comments.
I don’t care how you all feel and think regarding those of whom you may criticize. I can assure you that no one feels more strongly about the issues at hand than I do. No one is asking any of you to respect any one. I am asking all of you to show a little class, however.
And, here’s why…as an example only.
I do not know the owner of the blog Just Jennifer. I do know, however, that unfortunately she has reduced her voice to irrelevancy. And, there is another blog who seems to be heading down that road. One can not count the times the Just Jennifer blog has been associated with me because I have allowed her to post on this blog and because I have on two or three occasions posted on hers…in spite of me disagreeing with almost everything she not only says, but how she says it. It happened at the recent PHB discussion.
I shut down my first blog because it became one big free for all as some felt they could say anything they liked about anyone they liked, me included. That is not going to happen anymore…and I don’t care who you are.
Specifically, misgendering is not allowed…at all, ever. If any of you don’t feel like the person you are addressing is the gender they claim to be that’s is fine with me…certainly I address people as him or her knowing damn well the person has a no chance in hell of ever being accepted as their target gender. One reason I don’t misgender people is because doing so has one and only one purpose and that is to insult and hurt the person. But, there is another reason and that is it’s blatantly rude, it looks stupid, adds no class whatsoever to either the person saying it or the comment, or my blog, and is just plain childish.
I have only banned one person from this blog, but I have come very close to banning another who comments here. This blog is for an exchange of ideas and comments to the threads, not a place for the wild haired to come into acting like a complete idiot, post op or otherwise. And, make no mistake, there are some post ops who can make a blog like mine look just as bad as Dysonnance makes PHB look.
READ MY LIPS…that is not going to happen here.
Besides, everyone saw just how stupid the transgender came across in the past week or so on PHB. And, no one who commented there liked how rude the transgender were to us. Well, this blog is not a venue for anyone to “get back at” them. If one thinks simply reversing the blog venues and power accomplishes anything they are just plain stupid. We are not going to respond to the transgender in the same way they respond to us…at least no here…we don’t have to.
Lastly, two things…first, if any of you think that we are going to change the minds of the transgender you are mistaken. Catkisser is right, the only minds we are going to change is the wider audience…and the wider audience is not going to seriously consider what is said if the comments are simply rude and uncouth…no one likes to see that kind of crap. And, secondly, we don’t have to resort to those tactics. As an example, no sane person is ever going to believe that a woman can have or even wants a cock…no one who counts will ever believe the BS that someone like Dyssonance puts out…same for pregnant men, etc. We don’t have to resort to transgender tactics, rudeness, and simply being assholes to reach the wider audience. In fact, we will not reach the wider audience if we do use those tactics.
Just the way I feel…nothing has changed.
WTF?
*[new] Bet you felt good doing that…
not that she didn’t deserve that. She’s a stupid fucking drunk puppet.
Btw, did you get the same rush as when you did it the other week?
by: lisalee18wheeler @ Sat Jan 15, 2011 at 21:22:54 PM EST
http://www.pamshouseblend.com/showComment.do?commentId=238419
*[new] No…
because Leigh was a stupid drunk puppet that should have known better. Leigh and Susan are both willing puppets and don’t speak for me or my friends.
by: lisalee18wheeler @ Sat Jan 15, 2011 at 21:28:44 PM EST
http://www.pamshouseblend.com/showComment.do?commentId=238421
that’s shameful.
Yes I’ve been getting a bit of that from the aria supporters lately. Has to do with my support for carolyn which goes against the grain with aria and her puppets, of which lisalee is one. Aria is right, there are backstabbers even amongst what we think are allies.
sigh
Well it would seem, according to dyssonance ( I checked the blog and cousin, business is a boomin’) , that you and I and every one of us are running and hiding in fear of discovery. I guess “she” conveniently ignored the post I made on PHB where I said that I was not stealth in my local community, and where my history was known. The single most stupid thing I have ever done was to out myself in the community. I won’t get into the details of why I did that other than to say it was a moment I regret.
Well, I havn’t moved, still here, nobody has yet come to kill me, or even misgender me. Post lady is still cordial, UPS guy is still an intollerable asshole, just like he was before, neighbours still talk to me and some of them still want to screw me if only they thought they could get away with it without anyone finding out. Yes I am living the high life out and proud .. except .. I am neither.
Simply put my life is still my business. I still am not going out crusading for rights or have “THE” conversation with anyone that will listen. I am just plain ole me, ornary as ever and trying my best to get along.
But wait! back there I said it was the worst decision I ever made .. so how can that be if nobody is bothering me about it. Well I’ll tell ya, it’s because they know, it makes me feel transparent, like the entire community has raped me! Yes, thats exacly it. I want to wash it off but it doesn’t come off. I have never been raped, a friend of mine was, and I think it must be similar. You get over it, you move along day to day, you appear the same to everyone, just like you always did. Nobody speaks of it, but you see it, the looks, the awkwardness. Yes it’s a lot like being raped I think.
Why are women stigmatised by rape? Its not their fault, they didn’t cause it, there should be no personal shame, yet the first thing a woman does is to try to scrub it off. Why do men not understand the very deep and emotional damage done by rape? Is this why the transgender can be out and proud, because in the very primacy of their being, rape is not a thing they have to feel ashamed of? I think this answers this missing link for us, why it is we dont want to be outed, why we strive to be private? They say its because we are ashamed of who we are, thats all they understand. Would they say that to a woman that had been raped? Would they accuse her of hiding, of being ashamed? I think not. Is my analogy over stated? I am not sure. Certainly I would not want to overstate a thing that is such as serious business. Natal women reading this may claim that I have no right to say it, yet don’t I ? Isn’t rape and the dealing with it a psycological reaction to its happening? I don’t know but at very least, if not analgious to rape, then its something very close, like having my nude pictures spread around to all my friends and neighbours. One thing I know for certain, its not hiding, its not the shame of being myself, it is the shame felt that can only be planted, the ones you have no control over, the one where you want to wash it off, where it has violated you to your vey core.
I don’t have the answers to all the questions, but I also know the answers they present and hone as truths, are not true. I also know that they can never understand until they quit playing and start being women. And that has nothing to do with transition, it comes long after that, and only after having GRS.
I stand by my words, whether you like them or not. I’ve learned much here, both good and bad. But y’all have been deceived by someone with far more sinister plans than all the junk thought up by the TG to date. Call me stupid, or paranoid, or just call me a cab. It doesn’t matter one way or another. Y’all have become obsolete and irrelevant. I and others like me are creating a new paradigm. Go read Aria’s last blog post and maybe you’ll get a clue.
Or maybe not.
I have no more to say here.
I would expect nothing less than for you to stand by your words, Lisa.
Either way, by saying you have no more to say here means to me that it’s probably best you don’t come back.
I have respect for what you say.
If we are being deceived please let us know by whom, you have nothing to loose.
Otherwise I support what Leigh has said I have the same feelings. Some of us have been in the battle for a long time and battle fatigue can set in.
I know people who live in this aria who would like to take a baseball bat to Sandeen and company.
Sandeen has a lot of enemies in southern California. That might have to do with Ms. Sandeen isn’t seen at a lot of public events.
These people will get what is coming to them soon enough.
Keep in mind I’m not endorsing violence against the brand of filth that has rui9ned the good name of those with an operative history I just know it’s going to happen.
With that said lisalee I wish all the best for you and I hope the new paradigm pans out.
The only “new” paradigm I’ve seen yet is the same failed TG rhetoric that has been proven a failure for over a decade, and which self-hating, guilty-feeling, left-wing TSs who are bottom kissers play into. Nearly every TG and TS who is a TG-loyalist presents that same worn philosophy as something new. And when the rest of us come up with something new, liberating, and placing TSs on the same level with GGs, we get attacked and accused of having obsolete or hateful ideas.
Actually, TGism, radical feminism, and TSism of the sort which enables TGism are part of an old failed paradigm that refuses to die. It was this philosophy which caused Dr. Money to cause a victim of a circumcision accident to be wrongly raised as a girl, under the failed notion that gender is completely a social construct. The failed notion that TSism and gayness are part of the same community did very little in the 60′s when gays hijacked a “gay and transsexual community” organization and banned the “TSs.” A certain group of “TS’s” have always been trying to force themselves in with the gay community and then crying when the gay community doesn’t want them, and that as been going on for at least 40 years, and they still haven’t learned from it. I don’t know why they have this need for the gay and TG community to own us when even they are harmed by the lumping. It is ridiculous.
Good luck with thst lisa …
I guess I am pretty confused about the shifting alliances here and yet I feel a strange form of empathy for all of us. If you will remember it was that misplaced empathy that got me gang banged by the lot of you here in the fist place and to date only one of you has had the courage and decency to apologize at that was Carolyn. Leigh on the other other hand, at last acknowleges me. The rest of you, I just don’t know. Is it any wonder that there is so little trust? I mean we all seem to agree with Ashley’s post and yet there seems no hope of unity in even this tiny little group.
Susan, as you know I am still relatively new to all this having just recently celebrated my one year anniversary of having commented on your blog,(Oct/Nov.2010). My question to you is genuine in that I am as yet unclear how I am to refer to someone of questionable gender or sex, like Dyss. I have heard of the terms like”ze or hir” or if I am reading you correctltly “she”? or “her”?
I notice the original post was re-quoted at Dyss’s blog and it seems that I typed in “he”. I assure you thatthat was a typo and totally unintentinal, and so for that I do apologize. I did mean to type “she”.
As to lisa, I to like “not your friend” would like to know WTF you are alluding to, and please spare me the “wait until yor mistress aria deigns to clue us in” BS. I mean it is getting so PC around here it is difficult to speak.
English.
And finally to Leigh. I feel your pain. I know clearly of what you speak. I understand very clearly that it is the psychological damage of being raped that can be the most damaging. I know this from experience and your anaolgy of being outed is a good one. IT is a personal violation of the most profound sense of self and “being” imaginable.
Anna;
there has always been some stress between the generations. I’m over twice as old as Aria is. The younger crowd seems to think they have an answer that works for them and for that I am happy. I truly hope this new paradigm works. I was 24 when I began my transition Disco was just becoming popular and gas was about $1.20 / gallon. I’m from a different generation.
I would like to know just who we are being deceived by that would make for an interesting discussion.
As for jumping all over you, and I remember the event. I’m sorry for doing so. Sometimes it’s far easier to be an angry old bitch than it is to be kind. So for that I am truly sorry.
Anna, I don’t remember when you first started coming in here. I do know that though I seldom interfere when someone’s idea are challenged, even if they are challenged vehemently. I do know that you and everyone are welcome to comment here if they have a bit of decorum in doing so.
With regards to what someone should call another in here, that’s easy. Generally their screen name is gender specific, either way, refer to them as they wish to be preferred…no misgendering.
As for shifting alliances and puppets I stay out of that. LisaLee’s comment was simply stupid in hindsight. I know there was a big blow up on Aria Blues blog a while back…a BIG blow up. But, to this day I’m not really sure what happened. I had not one thing to do with it. I made not one comment that even peripherally picked sides on that blow up, either on the Aria Blues blog or here on mine. I’ve never had an unkind word to say about LisaLee personally. And, anyone who reads this blog has to know that myself, as well as those who generally comment here march to our own drum. We agree on some things, but disagree on just as many. Agreeing with me is not a prerequisite to commenting here.
I read Aria Blues daily. Almost all of what she had to say on her blog I agreed with. And, what little bit I didn’t agree with was so small as not to count. I hated to see her stop blogging and asked her to reconsider when I found out.
I haven’t any idea what LisaLee was talking about, but really didn’t appreciate being blind sided like she did. I have no idea who she thinks is deceiving me with sinister plans, unless it’s my husband. LOL My essays are almost always relative to some current event. I don’t co-blog with anyone. My position has been the same since I first transitioned years ago. And, as far as I know, my blog is unique on the blogosphere for having the position I have. No one influences me; I listen to no one when I write my pieces; And, my blog essays are not written based on the advice others give me. Leigh is my best friend, I have spent way more than a little time with her in real time, but even with that, aside from a brief chat this weekend, the last time she and I chatted on line had to have been back in October some time. For the past four months, including today, when it clears up, I’ve been up to my ears in sailboat renovation.
I haven’t a clue what LisaLee is alluding to but anyone who thinks Leigh is my “sockpuppet” or that I’m hers simply doesn’t know either of us. My issue is not what LisaLee said, but the fact that I was blind sided by her comments on PHB. The juvenile, veiled comment above was pretty much the end…I prefer she doesn’t come back.
I have also written Aria in the same spirit and asked that she not quit her blog. I hold no animosity toward her, but like Susan, I will not be told who my friends can be.
Well the answer to the deceived by comment is Carolyn.
Apparently, they seem to think she has an agenda most heinous and so secretive that we are all duped by it. My take on that is so what if she did, which she doesn’t, WTF! This is the Internet, a war of words among a very small group of mostly inconsequential players. Is Carolyn developing nuclear weapons ? I dont know, but to go getting all hyper defensive over it speaks more about the mental health of those that do, than the dastardly deeds of an average and mostly bored housewife in Australia.
I never apologized to you Anna ? Allow me to publicly state it .. “I apologize. I’m really, really sorry. I apologize unreservedly. I offer a complete and utter retraction. The imputation was totally without basis in fact and was in no way fair comment and was motivated purely by malice, and I deeply regret any distress that my comments may have caused you or your family, and I hereby undertake not to repeat any such slander at any time in the future.”
Seriously though .. I apologise.
I asked Carolyn’s opinion of the rape assimilation theory. She too thought it to be the best analogy she could think of. She even feels that way about her doctor knowing. Even though he is very comforting toward her, hugs her when she leaves, she still feels violated in his knowing. She also agree that the TG do not have this feeling because they are not truly female. I would welcome others points of view on this.
Well, I know that’s what you think, but I do not know that to be a fact…that Carolyn is who LisaLee is talking about. I do agree with this, however:
“Is Carolyn developing nuclear weapons ? I dont know, but to go getting all hyper defensive over it speaks more about the mental health of those that do, than the dastardly deeds of an average and mostly bored housewife in Australia.”
This whole thing from LisaLee just seems kind of high schoolish to me…sorry.
Wow, I sure do see a lot of hostility in these comments. I am really very happy that so many of you can blend, and or assimilate as your target gender, however, not all of us are able to do so. Even though I am Post-Op, and quite comfortable having a female body, I am also unable to afford the additional surgeries that would help me to blend…I:E: FFS, voice surgery etc…It is a fact that most Trans persons are undeniably poverty stricken, myself included. In light of the fact that I cannot blend as my target gender, I have gradually come to accept more of an androgynous existence for myself. And that’s ok…really! Point being then that (although possibly not the best descriptor) Transgender people do exist outside of the exclusive surgical experience of transsexuals. I call it Binars Vs. Mosaics! Any way, what I am seeing in these comments is an intolerance towards Trans persons who for some reason or another do not conform, and blend to a very narrow definition of Gender. I personally find this to be very sad. There Are people of all colors, there are people from many different nations, there are many many different religions, and languages, and there are many, many different genders. Y’all may be “Binar Identified”, and that’s all well and good, but your intolerance towards people who do not identify such as yourselves speaks volumes about your true levels of consciousness.
I’m not trying to pick on you but please listen…
If those surgeries are important to you, you will find a way to have them.
I respectfully say the only barrier any of us have encounter was of our own making.
In regards to voice; I’ve found many are not willing to do the work it takes to break the behaviors that were learned to fit into the male half of society.
If you had heard my voice 30 years ago you wouldn’t imagine I was even the same person, just by hearing my voice alone.
I didn’t spend any money on a voice coach, I just learned to be a good observer and to shed the vocal habits I was forced to accept when I was growing up.
You can have the best voice surgery in the world and still sound male.
Nobody questions her sex, “gender”.
Pitch is only one of several components that make up a male or female voice and it’s the smallest component.
Don’t believe me?
Go to YouTube and look for recordings of the Physic Sylvia Brown. Close your eyes and listen to her voice and tell me her voice isn’t female. My best friend’s voice is an octave lower than my voice and she was born with all the right parts.
There is a belief in some corners of the TS community that surgery is the answer for everything, it’s not.
What many don’t seem to get is that more than half of transition is socialization into the female half of mainstream society. You also have to be born TS, people don’t just wake up one morning and decide to transition, well they do and I could name names but they are not successful.
Women of operative history are not made, they are born. Though I can’t get a straight answer out of those Tee-Gees who say we are somehow privileged I think this being born with our birth defect is what they are attacking.
seconded
Welcome Cynthia
“quite comfortable having a female body Cynthia? Interesting way to put it I suppose… and what makes you think any of us have had additional surgeries? Many of us are long term corrected. We consider ourselves women. We are not trans, transgender, transsexual, a trans-woman, a gender outlaw, gender confused, gender challenged, gender queer or a “biner”, “mosaic” cis, or any of the other myriad of stupid terms drummed up by the gender thought police.
We don’t care that there are those that want to identify in the flavor of the month club and we hold no apology for that view. We never transitioned to become “other”, we transitioned because we had to, and we did it fully, and unreservedly. Those that come here with the intention of trying to teach their grandmothers to suck eggs, will get short shrift from us. This is not another TG blog. If thats your intention in coming here, take it down the road.
We are not interested.
Claiming poverty?….I never had any other surgery to feminize, I never even had electrolysis, but plucked for years instead because I could not afford it. I am not some slender young thang either….and I sang bass.
And yet I had trouble passing as male for several years before I transitioned. Even dressed aggressively male. I don’t buy the “I cannot pass thing” because, as I used to point out, Bea Arther passed, gravel voice, huge shoulders, gruff manner, very large frame and all. Women come in all sizes and configurations….
Oh My Gosh, I expected this…Your missing the point of the my post. Transgender people exist…People who Identify as only one gender exist. Point being that this intolerance towards others who do not identify such as yourselves is totally irresponsible. Yes, I have had surgery. It was hard won, and I do identify myself as being a woman, but because of my physical characteristics, and voice, and such, have found it quite impossible to blend. I have adapted. Your analogy to Bea Arther is a good example of someone who had differences in appearance, and voice, as compared to other natal women, but your argument falls short when you consider that she also had some very feminine physical characteristics which pretty much sealed the deal. All of y’alls condemnation of people who Identify as transgender, or two spirit, or gender queer or whatever…People of differing economic circumstances, people such as myself who are disabled and unable to work, your automatic condemnations of people who do not identify as cissexual, or do not have the same venues as yourselves for taking care of things, or making a living is a really sad commentary. It is a fact that people who do not identify such as yourselves exist. It is a fact that there is a great, and disproportionate amount of discrimination towards people whose gender identity does not conform to their narrow view. It is a fact that equal rights are denied to people with differences in gender. It is a fact that we are murdered just for being who we are, and here you people are doing exactly the same as those religionists, and politicians do to us. Automatically condemning people who don’t identify as yourselves. Shame on all of you!
Cynthia I guess you didn’t read my post.
I said Sylvia Brown the Physic not Bea
Arther.
And for the record I was born disabled, built a career and after my disability became worse I still was able to work and raise additional money and have my corrective surgery.
I hate to say this and I don’t mean it to hurt you or anyone else, just because you have a handicap is no reason to let that stop you. It never stopped me and I was born with a handicap.
I highly recommend you go and listen to Sylvia Brown’s voice, pitch has little or nothing to do with having a female voice.
It’s intonation, inflection, word usage and cadence. All of which surgery won’t fix.
Marcy Bowers has a female pitched voice yet she still sounds male.
Why do you think that is?
As for Tee-Gees I have no problem with their existence, I don’t want to be included in their false paradigm.
I am not a Tee-Gee. I should have the right to protest forced inclusion which is in my way of thinking a form of rape.
Oh please .. go peddle it to someone who gives a rats .. Tired of you self rightous bastards with your whining excuses. So you bought a designer vagina .. congratulations .. now go find a female mindset cos honey, your talking like a man demanding privleges they havn’t earned.
More times than not this is what happens.
They think being female can happen if you throw enough money at it.
Nothing
Nothing
Nothing could be farther from the truth.
I have to admit it angers me when someone pulls the handicap card as an excuse for and a pass for failure.
I’m sorry that just doesn’t wash, not with me.
Cynthia said she was “…disabled and unable to work…” and I didn’t see that as her using that as an excuse, Not you friend. She also says she has adapted, which is admirable. All of what she has said is generally valid in my opinion. I personally only take issue with her accusations of intolerance.
To everyone…
It’s not necessary to be rude and I will not tolerate being rude just for the friggin sake of being rude. THAT IS SOMETHING WE CAN’T STAND WHEN IT’S DIRECTED TO US, ON OTHER BLOGS…IT’S STUPID…BE RESPECTFUL TO CYNTHIA, SHE’S BEING RESPECTFUL OF US.
I didn’t mean what I said to be rude. I have not met a disabled person who wanted to work that couldn’t. If someone can get on the net and make posts rather by typing or by using a speech to text program they can work if they want to.
Stephen Hawking works, and he is worse off than any of us.
Susan anybody who needs to transition can.
I do know people who are disabled and can’t work…and Steven Hawking is the premier physicist in the world, hands down. You have no idea what Cynthia’s background is…please stay on topic.
Anybody can transition if they want to…and Cynthia clearly says that she has and has adapted.
What is the point in nit picking someone who comes in here with the wherewithal to come and open up? She has been respectful and doesn’t deserve the shots you are taking at her.
THIS PLACE WILL NOT BE A BLOG WHERE THOSE WHO COMMENT ARE SHOUTED DOWN AND INSULTED FOR THE HELL OF IT…PERIOD.
I apologize Susan;
It is a sore spot with me because I know many successful handicapped men and women some of which have needed to transition.
With that I will drop the subject.
Again I apologize.
Bad taste in my mouth from the PHB debacle
…sorry
“As for Tee-Gees I have no problem with their existence, I don’t want to be included in their false paradigm.
I am not a Tee-Gee. I should have the right to protest forced inclusion which is in my way of thinking a form of rape.”
Hi, Cynthia…
As this is my blog, and knowing how beat up some of those who comment get slammed on the transgender blogs, I can say with certainty that if you had stopped with the two sentences above you would not have had any problems here…and really, based on what you’ve actually said, you shouldn’t have had any problems here anyhow. But, more to the point, let me address your comments on the intolerance you say we have here.
Emotions run high with this issue and in the attempt that many of us have made to express ourselves that emotion sometimes come across as being intolerant. For me, the owner of this blog, and for the most part I think the rest, we are certainly not intolerant of the transgender. I know I have made this statement many times here on Enough Non-Sense:
“I think the GLBT should lobby for any right they think they should have and yet do not have.”
I have no problem with the GLBT and think they should have the same basic civil rights as everyone else. I really do not see any intolerance in that statement.
Where the rub comes in is when many of us who are transsexual voice our assimilation by them. This comment took a lot of crap by the transgender and is perfectly illustrative:
“There is nothing wrong with transvestism, just don’t try to pass it off as being transsexual.”
The truth is that the transgender try to do just this sort of thing, pass other forms of gender expression off as transsexualism.
If I ran into someone on the street dressed up in a turnip costume and he said to me, “Hi, I’m a male turnip”, I’d probably say “Hello, Mr. Turnip” and then quickly walk away. Me doing so in no means that I don’t think the man is actually a male turnip, when he is most assuredly just a deranged man.
Because some of us refuse to accept the obviously absurd doesn’t mean that we are intolerant. If you really want to see intolerance, go read the response to our comments on Ms. Sandeen’s expose’ of Ashley Love. We are absolutely vilified for simply having a different perspective.
Oh please .. go peddle it to someone who gives a rats .. Tired of you self rightous bastards with your whining excuses. So you bought a designer vagina .. congratulations .. now go find a female mindset cos honey, your talking like a man demanding privleges they havn’t earned.
Hey Listen sweety, in my eye’s you are an amoral pitiful excuse of a human being. That you would deny equal rights to those who don’t identify as you speaks for itself. That is a path of bigotry. Bigotry is immoral. And yes, I am a woman…albeit – androgynous, but still very much a woman. That you would insult me in such a manner again speaks volumes of just how much of an amoral evil bigot you are. I feel sorry for you, and all of you who have this kind of attitude. Your hearts, and minds are closed, and hardened. Sad really!
As I was part of this discussion I would like to say a few things.
I mean this kindly;
First off;
I don’s subscribe to political correctness. It’s censorship and I don’t believe in that if one is respectful.
I never brought your status as a member of the female half of society into question. I respect your determination to correct your birth defect.
Everyone already has equal rights, what some are wishing for is some special status protected status is what some call it.
In regards to my situation and the handicaps I had to overcome; the last time I let that information out I was attacked by 2 high profile transsexuals One runs the largest TS information site on the net the other one is an entertainer who has been in a few mainstream TV shows and at least one movie. So I don’t say much about my personal life like the other women here.
I have been badly burned by the Tee-Gees and the TS who pander to the Tee-Gee community.
It is good that you have done as much as you have. All I have said is it’s possible to do with less money.
I don’t want to see you go, I believe there can be a civil exchange of ideas, I just won’t lead you to believe I drink the TG-Kool-Aid. I would rather be up front and honest about my feelings.
[Leigh asked that I delete this comment - SA-ET 01-17-11]
Cynthia .. sweety
Before you accuse people of denying things .. please go read this very accurate and unbiased assessment of the GLBT sponsored GLAAD media reference guide…. then you can come back here and tell us how we are denying them their rights ..
http://ts-si.org/guest-columns/28585-reform-the-glaad-media-reference-guide
That will be the last time anyone is run off this blog after they respectfully come in and voice an observation…and that is all Cynthia did. It makes me friggin sick. Cynthia was insulted, ridiculed, personally attacked and generally slammed for no reason by some of you…and I really do not like it.
If you can’t not or will not respect my wish then GO SOMEWHERE ELSE and spare me the embarrassment of embarrassing YOU. This is NOT Pam’s House Blend and you all DO NOT get to treat visitors on MY blog like those idiots over at PHB treat us. Is there ANYTHING about what I just wrote that any of you don’t understand?
My absolute last word on the issue…mark my words.
My fault, and mine alone
I take full responsability.
You are absolutly correct.
I share some of the responsibility, don’t take it all on your own.
Wow! Well Done Susan, Leigh, and Not Your Friend.
Also thank you for again making me feel welcome. I very much agree that the level of emotion is something that needs to be closely monitored. Obviously many of us have suffered some serious and significant abuse at the hands of the more aggressive agenda driven TG and LGBT “leaders”. Many of them are clearly what they accuse us of being, IE, bigots and uncaring ideologues.
I think the issues that Cynthia raises are worth looking at and I think that most of agree that all human being are in fact ENTITLED to some level of basic human rights. Many of those are clearly delineated in our American Bill of Rights. Other things, like the ‘right’ to work or housing, or medical care are clearly things/services that are more commonly understood to be privileges which need to be earned.
Obviously, provisions need to be made for the less fortunate or the handicapped as we have, but I am not sure that means the same as total cradle to grave care by BIG GOV’T in the form of UNCLE SAM
I think the major point of contention is the post modernist claim that black is white based on personal definition or preference. The question that I have always had is how far must we go to comply with this nonsense. PC is a club which is being used to de construct our society. When I guy shows up in a dress, he is still a guy. When a guy buys a vagina, he is still a guy. I think we all got that.
The question I think that is being asked is what society is supposed to do about that. Obviously there are a lot of gender bending people out there. For the most part, everybody seems to get along just fine. I think the problems arise when those who take their personal expression to far and into our, (society’s), face.
Well I will say clearly what I am sick of ..
P A N D E R I N G
I am sick of being told I am a privleged whitey,
I am sick of them accusing us of racism
I am sick of them accusing us of bigotry
I am sick of hearing how we are all angry closed minds
I am sick of hearing them whine about the underprivleged
I am sick of hearing their shopping list of excuses
I am sick of having to talk nice to them
I am sick of turning the other cheek
I am sick of not calling them what I truly believe they are
I am sick of their in your face accusations
I am sick of being talked down to
I am sick of not calling a spade a spade
and most of all
I am sick of P A N D E R I N G and playing by their rules~!
I Second That.
Oh and I believe it worth mentioning that one of our own “Aria Blue” has closed her blog. She will be missed. We are few enough already without all the splintering that has led to this. No matter who blames who for what, I for one am saddened that she decided to throw in the towel, and at the same time I am happy that she will spend more time out of this cess-pit. I feel that with the closing, my own exit from this arena can not be far in the offing.
Well done Aria and thank you !
It is indeed a shame that she has closed her blog. I didn’t comment there, I was asked not to and I respected her wishes.
With that said she was a good contribution to our cause.
I said months ago when I closed cassandraspeaks that I am out of this fight and so I am. Whatever happens in the USA will never affect me. Whatever the outcome of these exchanges and the effect if any on the way people view Transsexual or transgender people it cannot affect me. All I have ever cared about is the removal of the disgusting umbrella that is transgenderism from association with Transsexuality, period that’s it. The following is a poem by Rudyard Kipling, my Mother lived her life by it. She succeeded I try but sometimes fail, I am human. I can reccomend the philosophy for life the poem contains.
For those who doubt I really am out of this save exchanging IM’s with just three trusted friends and ONE essay on TS Si and so very glad I am. I wish everyone well. Including Aria.
@ Lisa in the eighteen wheeler. I would never call you anything as insulting as a cab. I am thrilled anticipating your new paradigm. I’m a ditz so please fill me in because I really have no clue. These things are so exciting to me and I really need your expertise.
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